I'm struggling with my heelside position myself, but I'm slowly starting to crack the code. I met 2 other experienced carvers on the hill last Sunday (both riding Coilers) and spent the day with them so they gave me a few tips.

For Question #1, I'm not really sure. One of the guys was telling me I should try putting my weight further back on hard icy snow like we get around here. James rides much softer snow so he can be more aggressive in setting the trench he wants. I still don't understand how or why that'd work, I'll need to experiment more with it before I can say something intelligent about it.

On #2, yes, turning the hips is really important. It does indeed get easier with higher stance angles, which is why carving is traditionally a hardbooter thing. It's also much easier to get the interface right on hardboots. I've never tried hardboots myself, but this is something I've heard from basically everyone who's tried it. I'm rocking the angles James recommends in his "carving secrets" video (27 and 12), but I was almost in a duck stance compared to the 2 other guys who were more in the 45-35 range. I've seen a Japanese video posted somewhere on this forum where the guy was recommending setting your stance angles according to your knee/ankle flexibility. One of the carvers told me he got his angles with a technique from a Mobility Duo video on YT, basically you jump up and land, knees bend in your riding position and just look at the angle and spacing your feet naturally take and set your bindings like that. He just tweaked that technique to include the hip rotation for carving.

As I mentioned in another post on this forum, heelsides turns really started to "click" for me when I stopped thinking about getting lower (as it only got me in a potty squat) and started thinking about driving the side of my hip towards the snow. This properly turned my hips and got me into a better position.

On #3, I think you might be overthinking it. This might be again something where the hardbooters have it easy with the boots that are stiff sideways, but unless your stance is higher than 45° I think the highback is still going to support the move you're trying to make. I'm riding Union Atlas bindings with the front high-back rotated and that seems to work plenty enough. I did crank up the forward lean a little last Sunday and it was definitely an improvement.

#4, it's all about the hip rotation. If you bend the knees with your hips facing sideways, you'll absolutely lose board angulation. If your hips are facing forwards, your butt will stay within the board when you want to get lower, so you won't lose angulation. I think James talks about adopting a "compact position" in the videos.

Anyway, I hope this helps! Just putting this into words also forced me to think about 1-2 things I want to try next time I go riding, so thanks for the questions!

When you're on your heels you can't absorb the terrain with your ankles, so you need to use your knees as the suspension... and it certainly is tougher. 

The wiggly pencil on the heels makes me think it's not slarving, but a lack of 'suspension' and good weight stacking.  In general, keep the knees flexed a bit so that you can absorb bumps.  For the weight stacking, angulation is the key... and it is easier with steeper angles to point your hips forward and crunch those obliques (to keep the shoulders level).

How’s your dorsiflexion?  I never considered mine until my pedorthist pointed it out. I did some exercises and got one of these:

https://medi-dyne.com/products/prostretch-original-single

Do a knee-to-wall test and see where you're at.  I was up to 16cm after stretching, which is about 55 degrees.

Just for another reference, the CASI manual has a bit on angulation:

https://issuu.com/casintc/docs/casi_reference_guide_2020

And a bit on turn shape as well.  They actually have anticipation/separation as part of the intermediate curriculum (I guess a lot of riders only do beginner/novice lessons):

I'll also add that bringing my rear knee forward (like Craig Kelly) really helps me open the hips on the heel side.  Putting that medial pressure on your arch support can also help keep the board decambered throughout the 'patience' part of the turn as well (if you're not generating a lot of centripetal force).

I'm not an instructor, but it works for me.

@skoonk 

Audio reply:

Yeah I posted the CASI stuff as another perspective, and while there’s some good stuff in there, I absolutely agree with James that once you’re beyond the novice level it should be a lot more dynamic (forget about returning to any basic body position).

Hi all, 

thank you so much for the feedback and advice!!

@emilecantin I have also noticed that when I lose rotation during heel side turns and when my hip becomes parallel with the edge of the board -- I feel as if I've hit a "wall" when trying to get lower. It's almost as if inclining straight back and doing a "potty squat" with shoulders/hips parallel to edge of the board have no difference and any further I just tip over. 

I also feel that my heelside turns are a bit better if my weight is shifted back more like your Coiler friends suggested but I probably need more practice and I'm not a 100% sure of the reason either (I have a hunch but Idk if it's scientifically correct).

On a side note, how are the Union Atlas bindings and is there any boot-out factor? I have Union Stratas and the adjustable heel cup is sticking way too much out lol. Based on the images online it seems that it only has 2 settings for the highback rotation like the Stratas.

@board-doctor thank you for sharing the CASI stuff, definitely got to read through it in detail!

@wild-cherry thank you for the audio clip!! I do have one question though - you mentioned the fore-aft motion. I haven't paid too much attention to my fore-aft motion to be honest, but I do want to ask if fore-aft motion is necessary? Only reason I'm asking is because I've heard conflicting opinions on this.

For instance, one of the recommended websites from alpinesnowboarder is this:

A Hardboot Manifesto V1 | BeckmannAG

Also this is one of the videos recommended from this forum: Complete carving book by Marc Cirigliano - Carving Central - AlpineSnowboarder

Midweighting 1 - Beginning a Turn (it's a alpine racing video but the coach recommends keeping weight 50/50).

From the Beckmann website:

7.  It is not necessary to actively load the nose of a board in order to initiate a turn. This ‘forward-pressure’ concept is a fallacy left over from the days of long straight skis and ‘by-the-numbers’ ski instruction.  Due in part to exaggerated side-cut dimensions, snowboards and the current generation of alpine skis will readily de-camber as soon as they are put on edge, assuming that their overall flex has been matched to the weight of the athlete.

Back ‘in the day’ when skis were long, stiff, and when one-size-fit-most, turn initiation was facilitated by hammering the front of the ski with a lot of knee drive.  Once the turn was about half completed, it was customary to step to the other ski and begin anew.  The step move was necessary due to the lack of ‘return’ (productive rebound) from the outside ski, which was most likely skidding.  With both feet attached to a snowboard, this independent foot movement is not an option.  Therefore, it is not a good idea to replicate this mode of skiing on a snowboard.  If, however, a rider has a board that is too stiff for their weight, they will find it difficult to bend the board from the middle, and thus must pounce on the nose at the start of every turn.

So here's my thoughts: if the board forms an arc when it is decambered, and it is decambered the most effectively by applying pressure in the center, wouldn't a turn shape be determined by edge tilt and amount of pressure? I mean, you could tighten/loosen the radius of a turn with fore-aft pressure (to re-camber the board in a new shape). Is my reasoning correct here?

My second thought is regarding alpine racing (I am not a racer, although I'd think it'd be cool for me to try one day lol) -- if you're turning at such high speeds, do they really have time to shift the weight from the front to the back, in addition from side to side? I feel like that's just too much going on

Anyways I don't really know, just trying to learn!

Posted by: @skoonk

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Is my reasoning correct here?

I don't think so, no.  The fore-aft motion is essential for smooth up unweighted transitions.

But moreover, you're overthinking it.  Just try it.  It's your body that needs to learn these movements, not your brain.

I understand you...

Posted by: @skoonk

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feel like that's just too much going on

That's why we bring focus to one element at a time.  And we hope that the body remembers something of what we just practiced when we bring focus to the next element. 

Think about the level shoulders and knees dropped to the snow on toeside, and the hips facing the nose on heelside.   Do that for a few runs, then try to hold that technique while bowing forward over the nose as you initiation these turns.  Combine this bowing with the compression and extention and you're doing it!  Is it working?

When I was learning, every day started with the tray drill.  But it was so much more than just the level shoulders.  "Tray drill" was just my cue, the verbalization I used internally to describe a complex series of movements through a variety of body positions.  You need to develop your own cues, words that link with the complex of muscle engrams that represent a carved turn. 

To get there, just practice the drills (four drills video plus J-turn) and feel how your board reacts to the different movements. 

You have to feel it, understanding it is secondary.  Try, fail, try something different.  See what works for you. 

The wall of snow is the reason why board angulation decreases when James bends his knees more. In this position when changing the height of his center of mass he has to slide his butt along the wall behind him. This means he has a set value for the distance he can incline from the center of his board. Imagine a right-angled triangle with the sides butt-wall, wall-snowboard, snowboard-butt, where the angle of the side snowboard-butt is our inclination, the length of wall-snowboard is static, and the angle between wall-snoboard and wall-butt is 90 degrees. When James shorten snowboard-butt by bending the knees the inclination angle increases. But since we are shortening snowboard-butt by bending the knees the lower legs must become more vertical as the thighs become more horizontal, this decreases board angulation as we have limited dorsiflexion in our feet.

There's also a second part to this about balancing forces. When we stand tall we put our center of mass farther away from the board, further into the turn. If we are trying to turn tighter than the tightest possible radius for our speed we need to either ride faster (to increase the centripetal force, and pray that the board and snow can handle the increase in edge pressure) or incline less (to move our center of mass closer to the board and make a less tight arc), both will balance the forces.

So when standing tall we cannot make tight carves, but when we bend the knees we give ourselves a wider window of possible arc lengths. For a given speed we can ride in a very compact style with both long and short arc lengths. Think about making yourself as small as possible on a flat section, you can still put the board on edge for long arc turns, but if you really tilt the board you can make a super tight arc if you want to. On the other hand, if you stand tall you are limited to longer arc lengths because of how far inside the turn your center of mass ends up if you incline more.

@skoonk I really like the Atlas, and the heelcup is pretty thin (see pic). I got them on a recommendation from a group of carvers I met last year at Mont Orford, about half of them were riding a variation of the Atlas. Union rates them as one of their stiffest ones (the Atlas FC is the stiffest, but $$$) meant for powerful riding, while your Stratas are rated much softer and are meant for surfy cruising through the park, not really what you're looking for in carving.

They feel great, can transmit the power I need even to a wide board, and the ratchets are a joy to use (but you know that already if you're riding Unions).

Still haven't booted out with them on my C4. My boots are size 10 Ride Lasso's.

@skoonk, what board are you riding?  The fore/aft weighting can be considerably different for different boards.

@board-doctor Libtech Dynamo: Lib Tech Dynamo C3 Snowboard 2024 | evo

This is my first season and I just got what was on sale at the local shops LOL. Glad I didn't buy a rocker board -- a lot of sales reps said they were good for beginners.

@superfelix That makes sense, and I understand the inclination vs angulation part.

However, (and I need to practice more) but I have tried bending my knees mid turn and instead of getting higher edge angle, I feel the board going flat.

I think the "bowing motion" of the upper body helps but I'm not so sure about bending the knees. 

I'm not sure if this is the best comparison, but here it goes: Sit down on the floor with your knees straight. Your ankle is more or less 90 degrees from the floor. Now scootch your butt in, which causes your knees to flex - my ankles however, drop and there's a lower edge angle between the floor.

James mentioned there's other forces going on during the turn which is why the example above may not apply, but Idk I'm going to practice more and experiment more. 

@wild-cherry I might be overthinking it lol... Definitely going to practice more!

But one more question (just for theoretical purposes) - aren't cross-over (up-unweighted) turns just related to the compression/extension of the body in the vertical plane (up and down)? Isn't fore-aft referring to the nose/tail range of motion?