Stivot Turns

Here's another video that's a bit longer.  The stivot (pivot entry) is 15 minutes in:

The guy in the green is a good example, as he hooks up he goes across the groomer (almost up hill).

Maybe not a problem for many people here, but I find that I focused too much on forward pressure this weekend and this caused me to initiate the turn with a stivot or a slide without having to kick my back leg out or rotate the board when it was more flat. However, the problem I had was that I would sometimes (most of the time) get stuck in the forward position for too long and never really drive with my back leg so I would skid for too long. But when I actively thought about shifting my weight back towards the center after turn initiation the board would grip up really nicely.

To do what the skiiers do and pivot the board in the air and land on your edge skid and then get into a carve... I'm about a decade of practice away from being able to think about doing that on a board 🤣 I also see a risk when you're snowboarding that you risk being under-rotated in your hips and upper body relative to the board if you jump into the stivot on a board as you don't have as much separation between upper and lower body as when you ski. This is not a problem on skis because you easily have 45 degrees of rotation in each direction between your upper body and skis, so your upper body can easily face downhill during the transition so you can pivot your skis to match your upper body. On a snowboard heel side turn you would have to rotate your upper and lower body at the same time, but on the toe side you could maybe do this if you're skilled enough? Of course you could do the heel side stivot turn by initiating it as a spin jump being underrotated for a heel side turn and then let your upper body catch up as you're skidding and have something to push off of?

Not the most organized thoughts here... more of a stream-of-consciousness, but it's an interesting topic! Because I think we all recognize the oh-shit-I'm-going-to-fast-skid at the end of the turn when the board pointed in the fall line for too long. And skidding at the top definitely sets you up better for the next turn rather than doing a speed check while traversing and having to gather yourself up before initiating the next turn.

Unfortunately, the snow I rode on this weekend was 100% man-made and very soft. Combine this with way too many people on the slopes and you got the worst combination of soft-ish ice, but still ice, and push piles of snow that's closer to sand or fine gravel than actual snow and doesn't hold any weight, so I actually looked for the ice patches to initiate my turns so managing speed was key and I definitely skidded at the top of the turns to achieve this.

Here's some hardboot carving and stivot turns by the guy who took the GS gold in Pyeongchang

"so I actually looked for the ice patches to initiate my turns " Yes! That's a good trick/skill that I think comes with experience. A lot of newbies try to avoid these areas and look for snow to skid, but sometimes you're better off turning sooner/quicker and getting it pointed back across the hill.

Saturday morning it was ALL icy groomers, so it was an opportunity to work on stivots with every turn. Generally it's not something that I regularly do, but it's nice to have in your bag of 'tricks' to occasionally throw in as you pick your line.

Jump turns are another 'trick', but they're very different, as you point out often involve some separation and counter-rotation (at least mine do). With the stivot you're actually over-rotating into the turn like over-steering a car. I do kinda pivot around the front foot as well, and as the tail catches up and comes inline with the new direction of momentum, it'll hookup and grip. If done smoothly, it's very satisfying. I think you're right, there is something about the timing of the weight transfer as it hooks up.

Posted by: @board-doctor

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Yes! That's a good trick/skill that I think comes with experience. A lot of newbies try to avoid these areas and look for snow to skid, but sometimes you're better off turning sooner/quicker and getting it pointed back across the hill.

Yes! Last time I rode, some two years ago on a crappy park twin board, I had the same conditions with push-piles of man-made snow and ice, and then I turned on the snow and it would sometimes just catastrophically not support my weight causing a complete skid out and me falling. This time I rode Stranda Bowlrider and Shorty (165, and 159 and 164) and noticed quickly that with the edge grip on those types of boards it was way more predictable on the ice compared to on the snow. I also noticed that the friend I'm teaching how to ski mostly fell on the push-piles rather than on the ice now that he's getting a bit more confident so it's definitely a good tip for newbies to dare to turn on the ice when it's like that!

Posted by: @board-doctor

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Jump turns are another 'trick', but they're very different, as you point out often involve some separation and counter-rotation (at least mine do). With the stivot you're actually over-rotating into the turn like over-steering a car. I do kinda pivot around the front foot as well, and as the tail catches up and comes inline with the new direction of momentum, it'll hookup and grip. If done smoothly, it's very satisfying. I think you're right, there is something about the timing of the weight transfer as it hooks up.

Ok, interesting. I don't know if what I do on skis qualifies as a stivot turn then... but what I do when I need to do that type of riding on skis is I do sort of like a hockey stop with the skis in the fall line until they hook up and start to turn, very much like the green rider, especially his first turn at 15:38, rather than rotating them on the snow. I think it may have to do with how much more effective edge you tend to have on skis that makes it harder to slide them when you have high edge angles, my 177 skis have some 165 cm effective edge, which is a solid 10+ cm more than the 195 cm Libtech Doughboy and 185 cm Stranda Pipeliner. You can rotate on the front foot on a snowboard even on edge, but I find that the the more I attack the tips of my skis the more the skis bite, this is especially noticeable on the jump/stivot turns in my experience, so maybe it would work if you're a bit back-seated during the slide on skis.. But I think it would be difficult to catch up to the skis if you ride them like that.

I see the jump pivot as a bit different, but I’m certainly not an authority on the topic. I’m not formally trained and this is what I’ve gathered from the interwebs,

The gear is a good point. On the weekend I was riding a 157 Niche Maelstrom with +21/+9 angles and 55cm stance (large for me). Only an 1190 effective edge, so it’s easy to pivot. It’s not very wide so it’s easier to feather the pressure on the edge too. My Korua Trenchdigger is pretty easy as well, but I find it tougher on my Shorty (variable sidecut, setback and EE?).

These are the smoothest stivot turns I've ever seen, on skis though.

He uses the stivot, or smearing part of the turn, as a way to show that you have full control over your edge angle, so he teaches it both at the top and at the bottom. This is the third part of a three part series for ski instructors or technical skiiers, those who also ski will find the full series super interesting I think.