Peroneal pain - anyone else deal with this?
Hey all! Anyone ever deal with pain on the anterior shin at the end of carving sessions? It's usually a bigger issue on my rear leg.
It is something I've dealt with for many seasons, and I've had a physio pointing out that it's probably related to the peroneal muscles (I was told the peroneus brevis specifically). Interesting enough it would happen to me when I used to ride duck, but the problem was more prominent on my front foot back then. It would flare up when I'd drive my weight fore at the initiation of turns.
I've done a ton of conditioning over the summer so I can ride more but it's this nagging pain that messes up my carving sessions as it makes it painful to drive my back knee hard into my boot during toeside carves. I've done a ton of random things from banded exercises, to stretching, different insoles, adding foam in specific places and new boots as well. This issue keeps rearing its head regardless! The next thing I'm going to try is a few different shin pads to see if I can distribute the pressure from the boot across a larger surface area to give that tender spot a break.
Enjoy my beautiful diagram below indicating where I feel it:
I've really been throwing everything I can at the problem, I would love to hear if anyone else has dealt with this and how they went around treating it. I just want to ride more!
I actually tore mine, right above the side boa on the Insano boot (it protrudes in a bit). I hate those boots.
In terms of dispersing pressure, intuition liners come up higher and help.
I can’t do canting, and need good arch support so that I don’t over pronate.
i use the pro stretch and maintain good Dorsiflexion.
Big White, BC, Canada
I’ve never dealt with that problem, but when I understood that it’s about pain on the outside of your legs my initial thought was: Have you tried canting your bindings?
If you’re standing with a reasonable width for snowboarding you cannot stand both with your feet flat to the ground and without angles in either your knee or ankle joints (your zero cant distance between your feet is probably around 25-30 cm).
Considering that our knees really only bend in one axis and that soft bots are soft, I’m guessing you’re taking out those angles mostly in your ankle joints. Look in a mirror with bare feet and you’ll see what I mean. This ankle flexion will stretch the muscles you’re mentioning.
@riotsupercarver has a super interesting video where he explains all of this and how to set up your bindings with canting (and hell and the lift) to work with your anatomy. And IF I understood the math in the video correctly you’d also need a bit more canting with a larger degree of splay between your bindings, which matches with you feeling more pain in duck than with +/+ angles
A cheap way that @wild-cherry had spoken about several times if you want to try out both canting and lift is to buy some rubber and put on your footbeds.
I bought a 5 mm thick mud flap and used a carpet knife to cut it out based on a paper stencil I made to create heel and toe lift for the back and front foot respectively. I don’t need additional canting because both my boots and footbeds have built in canting. I’ve superglued the rubber to the footbeds for a more permanent solution, but you can easily just stand on the rubber to try it out and pin it down with your boot if you’re careful and stand up while strapping in, just remember the rubber when you unstrap so you don’t accidentally litter but losing your rubber pieces
@board-doctor Ah I'm riding insano right now... any alternatives you found more comfortable? I was planning on getting new boots at the end of season.
I do pronate as well so I've shied away from canting since I feel like it would further cause my arches to collapse. What are you using for insoles? I've messed around with sidas customs but they collapse easily, as well as a few different superfeet which don't quite match my arch perfectly. I have considered using my custom walking orthotics which are too stiff to run in. I wonder if a super stiff orthotic would be fine for snowboarding or if I would run into issues with it impairing normal foot function in the same way that it does for running.
Unfortunately I have a ton of dorsiflexion in my rear leg, so that's probably not related to my issue but I appreciate the insight
@superfelix appreciate the info blurb! I'm a pronator so I've shied away from canting but who knows. I did have it on my rome cleavers but only about a 2.5 degree cant - don't know if that's enough to feel a difference.
I'll try to demo a cant via rubber like you mentioned. I've been really interested in heel / toe lifts, so it gives me an excuse to try out both. Thanks for the reply!
Try putting some foam behind the knob to spread out that pressure point (the tongue comes up around the front).
After about 40 days the liners were packed out. I’ve tried using them again this year with intuition liners, but really needed extra material around the shin so that I could get it tight enough, without crushing my instep. I’ve tried to make them work, but they might just not be for me. I’m tempted to try the Trident though… these shells seem to be the stiffest on the market. Not sure about the wrap liner though.
I really like Vans Verse and may just get another pair of those.
Big White, BC, Canada
For insoles, there isn’t much room in the Insano for my instep. I used the Kneed2ski and as the boots packed out I went to a slightly thicker Kneed2move, as they fit my higher arches well. They’re pretty hard though (and there’s not much cushion in the Insano either).
In the Vans I’ve got custom orthotics and they’re a dream.
Big White, BC, Canada
@board-doctor I feel really stupid for not noticing how aggressive that side boa protrusion is. I'm going to surround it in foam asap 🤦
Yeah, it’s a bad design… but as noticeable until the liner packs out.
Big White, BC, Canada
Posted by: @navEnjoy my beautiful diagram below indicating where I feel it:
I had this issue for one season, my mostly in the front foot but some in the back foot too.
Then I stopped riding Flux XV bindings and the problem went away and never came back.
What bindings are you in? Do you get this pain with all your bindings?
Maybe try a SkateTech binding from Now Binding Company. They're not the highest performing bindings for carving but they're very comfortable.
I was also told to pad my boots around the sore area and it helped a little, but it was the bindings that were causing the pain in my case
I'm just slaying...
Coincidentally, when I tore my tendon I had the Insano in Flux TM bindings (same carbon baseplate as the XV). The old Flux had a wide footprint with very little lateral flex. Something has to give. They’ve put bushings in the corners of the newer Flux bindings and that has really improved comfort… but there’s still no cushion underfoot.
Big White, BC, Canada
You're not alone, I'm having the same issue this season. My shins on both legs are just toasted. Using ride insano boots and the NOW carbon bindings. It was the same setup last year and didn't have any issues. Maybe the liners are really packing out. I might snag some intuition liners and use foam around the sore areas. Maybe canted risers. I took a week off hoping it would get better but it almost seemed worse once I got back into the boots. I've been relying on 800 ibuprofen to get through a day of carving... which isn't the healthiest thing ever. It feels a lot like shin splints which can take months to heal.
I've had it a lot on my rear foot the last few weeks... I noticed it doesn't happen on my split which is setup in "directional duck" at 20 / -10. Last weekend i've tried relaxing my rear binding from +~20 to +12 and it helped a lot (front stayed at +36). I suspect that this pain is due to unnatural "inward" pressure on your feet. I know I naturally walk with quite a lot of splay between my feet, so I probably need to maintain that in my stance angles.
EDIT: My split also has canted pucks, so that might also be part of it.
"Shut up Tyler"
@wild-cherry Coincidentally I'm also on Flux XV 🙂
I've had the issue in the past on my Rome Cleavers (which are really comfy) and union force classic (which have pretty loose straps overall). I'll probably go back to the cleavers for a bit to confirm that again though - anything is worth a shot. If that doesn't do it maybe I'll ask around my riding group to see if I can borrow something with SkateTech to see if it helps.
I did some carpet boarding and while a shin pad protected the tender spots from direct impact from the boot, I notice that the pain still happens as I release from the toe edge. It's especially bad when I fire up my foot stabilizer muscles as I hold a toeside turn. That might coincide with the issue being particularly bad when carving on variable condition runs - I must be firing up stabilizers more in those cases.
Following this thought process, I ordered the Trenched stiffeners and straps, I'm hoping that might help with keeping my boot from deforming and allowing more ankle stability with less effort. I'm going to throw everything I can at this problem and see.
Additional notes:
I tried some rubber pieces to do a DIY cant and heel lift - that feels really good on my knees. It didn't seem to affect much at my ankles though.
My custom orthotics actually did fit in my boot and seem to hold shape much better than the Sidas molded insoles I have. Probably due to stiffness. Not sure if this would help my situation though, but I'm going to try to ride with them in. When pushing toeside I don't feel much of the support from the insole as the pressure is really pressing up into the top of my boot as I tilt over.
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