Jones Freecarver 9000 Discussion

Posted by: @kagurasnowsurfer

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Has anyone ridden the Freecarver 9000?

I have not, but I have heard from a trusted reliable source that it behaves more like a 11m board.  That corresponds well with my experience on the Freecarver 6000, which turned way longer than I had anticipated, more like a 9m radius board.  Honestly, I don't know how JJ did it.  Kind of blew my mind actually.  Not that I loved the board, just that it didn't behave like any of the other 6-7m boards I have ridden; I was pleasantly surprised by that and the experience has made me question a few things I thought I knew about the relationship between sidecut radius (or sidecut depth) and turn shape.

My personal opinion is that while it's great to see that more manufacturers are catering to carvers, the Freecarver series is just another all-mountain board that carves decently.  I would have to go back-to-back to be more precise, but I didn't feel that it carved noticeably better than my NeverSummer Proto FR for example, and that's an all mountain board (and wider too). 

The Freecarvers are not in the ballpark for comparison to the C4 protos or any of my other titanal boards, but that was expected given it's construction.  A better comparison would be to the Stranda or a Donek Flux, which are both dedicated directional carving boards made with traditional materials (wood, fibreglass, carbon, and rubber for dampening on some models). 

And while I haven't watched Lars' video comparison I would remind everyone that Lars works for Standa; he's the Canadian sales representative.  I respect Lars very much, I think he's a man of integrity and I'm not suggesting that his video was a promotional tool or that he would intentionally lie about his experiences on these boards to sell more Standas.  I won't pretend to be without my own biases or incentives either, I'm just making sure that you have this information in mind when you watch Lars' video comparison. 

Also note that while Lars did ride one of my metal Coilers, it was my softest one and the first wide softboot carver that Coiler ever made.  I might try to get him on a C4 next season because that board is a different animal entirely; while the design objectives were very similar, the ride quality and baseline stiffnesses are very different. 

@Slayermtb rode a C4 proto on Saturday coming directly off his personal Standa.  I posted video in the "C4 Options" thread.  Perhaps he's in a better position to compare these boards, I have never ridden a Stranda.  @board-doctor has a Freecarver 6000 and he's tested two of the C4 protos, his opinion and experience is valuable too.  Neither of these members has any hidden agenda, outside influences or incentives; they have no reason to lie and their opinions can be taken at face value.  They are both expert level carvers too with lots of experience on many boards.

I would love to hear from any other member(s) too who owns or has ridden a Freecarver 9000.

That video that Lars did was great.  It seemed like a fair comparison, though he probably could have touched on the superior construction of the Stranda (maybe he was trying to avoid that?).  I think the ash core does a lot more for dampening than just an ash topsheet (I've got a Stranda Shorty and a 6000).  The ash topsheet isn't very robust either.

There is some very interesting engineering in the Freecarver though.  Among other things, "At the far ends of the sidecut, the radius is incrementally increased as the edge reaches the contact point. Gradually increasing the sidecut radius towards the contact point delivers smoother turn initiation and exit as the edge tracks in and out of the snow with a less abrupt transition."  This calculator https://natewaddoups.github.io/SidecutCalculator.html says the 156 averages 9.51m, but they list it as 9.2m.  If the majority of the EE is actually 9.2, perhaps the tips are considerably longer? 

The 6000 has a LOT of sidecut depth.  I do wonder if at higher edge angles the waist rises out of the track and you're riding more of the tips?  At that point the flex and profile of the board might be a bigger factor though.  I think it's relatively soft between the feet (which is probably deliberate so that newbies can ankle steer), but the tips aren't too soft (or it'd be a noodle for a carver).  It is very forgiving and never feels totally locked in.  You can change your trajectory mid-carve, but uneven terrain can throw you off trajectory too.  The traction bumps underfoot feel pretty good, but at times I do overweight the contacts (at the tips) and slide out.  The 154 actually has more EE than my 164 Shorty, but it doesn't have near the edge hold.

I do really like the 6000 for what it is.  I'd like to try a 9000, but I don't have much interest in buying one.  I think I'd probably want more substance for the speeds that it's supposedly made for.  In one of the Jones vids Jeremy said it was for the person that wants to mow/pin vert or something to that effect... more down the fall line. 

He's on the 154 6000 (I think a 48cm stance and 30/15 angles), other guy is on the 9000:

The other thing I’ll note is the Feeecarver (at least the 6) REALLY breaks in.  Initially it was stiffer than my ‘23 Rome Stalefish.  They’re both made in Dubai under Nidecker and supposedly a ‘7’… But by the end of the season it feels WAY softer, with probably less time on it.  

The Shorty can still seem like a chore if I’m trying to ankle steer it at lower speeds.  It’s a quality board, but not for everyone.  I think the freecarvers are probably a good start for the general public… but I still love having the 6 in my quiver.

Further thoughts (I’ve been drinking @riotsupercarver ’s Kool-aide)… when you start really laying over a board, the construction probably means a lot more than the shape.  You pay for it, but it’s worth it.

I have a Korua Trenchdigger that’s really fun in good conditions.  They say it’s a 10m sidecut, but the average actually calculates to 10.7m.  It’s surprisingly versatile and feels great… but it’s just poplar.  There’s lots of camber so it’s like riding a big leaf spring but it certainly isn’t damp.  It’s REALLY hard for me not to chatter out when carving in suboptimal conditions. Beautiful design, but I don’t think the construction warrants the cost.  I can ride the Shorty WAY faster, yet it’ll turn tighter too.  Almost too tight at times.  Korua is supposedly bringing back the Bullet Train, which gets a little titanal like the Shorty.  I believe it’s coming out of the same factory (GP87) as well.  If I hadn’t tried the C4 and had my heart set on it, I’d probably be buying a Bullet Train.

All that said, the construction of the Freecarver is still significantly better than most boards (from a carving perspective).

In perfect conditions you should be able to carve any board… and if you can’t, there’s seriously something wrong with it.  But a good board will help you carve in variable conditions.  You won’t need hero snow to look like a hero.  

(Perhaps I’ve been drinking more than Kool-aide tonight) 😂 

Posted by: @board-doctor

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Further thoughts (I’ve been drinking @riotsupercarver ’s Kool-aide)… when you start really laying over a board, the construction probably means a lot more than the shape.  You pay for it, but it’s worth it.

I have a Korua Trenchdigger that’s really fun in good conditions.  They say it’s a 10m sidecut, but the average actually calculates to 10.7m.  It’s surprisingly versatile and feels great… but it’s just poplar.  There’s lots of camber so it’s like riding a big leaf spring but it certainly isn’t damp.  It’s REALLY hard for me not to chatter out when carving in suboptimal conditions. Beautiful design, but I don’t think the construction warrants the cost.  I can ride the Shorty WAY faster, yet it’ll turn tighter too.  Almost too tight at times.  Korua is supposedly bringing back the Bullet Train, which gets a little titanal like the Shorty.  I believe it’s coming out of the same factory (GP87) as well.  If I hadn’t tried the C4 and had my heart set on it, I’d probably be buying a Bullet Train.

All that said, the construction of the Freecarver is still significantly better than most boards (from a carving perspective).

In perfect conditions you should be able to carve any board… and if you can’t, there’s seriously something wrong with it.  But a good board will help you carve in variable conditions.  You won’t need hero snow to look like a hero.  

(Perhaps I’ve been drinking more than Kool-aide tonight) 😂 

Thanks guys for the comments so far. That Korua Bullet Train has me intrigued. I am wondering if I can find a decent used one. I am still giving the Freecarver 9000 a serious look. Since I have small feet (US 7) and @wild-cherry recommended a width of 270 I have been actively shopping around for a board with those specs. Not sure if I am ready to drop $1000-$1500 for a truly dedicated titanal corduroy trench digger. I am more looking to dip my toe with something priced well below four figures until I ready to totally commit. If anyone has more to add, please join in...

My mondo is only 255 (7.5), but I typically wear 260 due to my high arch and instep.  What’s your weight?  If you’re looking at Stranda definitely look at the weight range (they’re fairly high) and don’t overshoot your ability.  They seem to have some torsional rigidity.  The Freecarver would probably be a good start.  You could also do a custom board from another company without the Titanal construction at a lower cost.

Posted by: @board-doctor

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My mondo is only 255 (7.5), but I typically wear 260 due to my high arch and instep.  What’s your weight?  If you’re looking at Stranda definitely look at the weight range (they’re fairly high) and don’t overshoot your ability.  They seem to have some torsional rigidity.  The Freecarver would probably be a good start.  You could also do a custom board from another company without the Titanal construction at a lower cost.

I fluctuate between 75-78 kg (165-170 lbs) at a height of 173 cm (5'6"). The Jones folks were steering me toward a 152 because of my small boot size but I think my weight is more geared toward a 156. @wild-cherry recommended a 270 cm waist based on my stats which is why the Jones 156 seems to fit better despite my tiny (Mondo 25) but wide (EEE) feet. I also have a high arch/instep but that may be due in no some small part to my bow-leggedness. I think the Bullet Train might fit the bill and it comes with some titanal construction. Just missed a nice used one posted on a Japanese auction site...sold a month ago for $550.

Posted by: @kagurasnowsurfer

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Jones 156 seems to fit better despite my tiny (Mondo 25) but wide (EEE) feet. I also have a high arch/instep but that may be due in no some small part to my bow-leggedness. I think the Bullet Train might fit the bill and it comes with some titanal construction.

I agree, go for the 156 or bigger.  Even the 160 only has 134cm of effective edge, which is decent and longer than average, but more length means more stability at speed.  For comparison, the 164 Dart has 120cm of ee and the Bullet Train 160 has 132.  I usually buy the biggest size of whatever model board I get, especially if I plan to carve it.

I've ridden two Koruas: the Pencil and the Dart Plus.  I didn't think either of them even was decent for carving, the Jones Freecarver is far better in my opinion for carving. 

The Koruas are better suited for slashing powder.  I didn't ride the Jones in powder for comparison but I would guess that I would probably like it more.  I found the Koruas small and slow.  Fun and playful sure, but maybe my idea of ripping big turns is a little different than most riders'.

The Bullet Train is their groomer board.  I would be curious to test that board for carving performance against a Freecarver 9000 and a NeverSummer Proto FR.  Just guessing, but if I could own just one of these it would probably be the NeverSummer.  Because I have dedicated carving boards already, any of these would serve as an all-mountain for me and I like the base profiles of the NS boards; they allow me to ride a bigger board for better/faster carves without sacrificing the quickness of the turns I need to make in the Revelstoke trees.

I'm actually a little knock knee'd, but I've never thought about what that does to my stance?  Note that 173cm is 5.67", which is actually about 5'8".  It seems a lot of people muck up that conversion, but you definitely don't want a 152.   I'm just a hair shorter and lighter, and I'd probably go 160.  Note that the 160 has a 60cm ref stance (you can get a 4x4 down to 52cm, but you wouldn't have any setback option).  I'm on the 154 FC6000, but bought it for a softer, more playful carver.

James, you did do a couple runs on my Korua Trench Digger, but it really wasn't the day for it.  While it'll slarve ice, it's a lot more fun surf'n softer groomers.  It'll do pow but it's full camber (without the rocker nose like most Korua), so I don't love it.  It's not precise or locked in, but in the right conditions it really is fun.  It has some energy in it, it's easy to tighten up the radius, and while it's fairly forgiving it has some weight and stays on course.  They replaced it with the Bullet Train.  Looks like the same sidecut, but it's wider, full of carbon and has some titanal.  Hopefully they got rid of the chatter.  I suspect it'll ride more like the Shorty, but with a longer (better) sidecut and more energy (probably not as damp without the ash).  I'm keeping an eye out for a used one.

Posted by: @board-doctor

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I'm actually a little knock knee'd, but I've never thought about what that does to my stance?  Note that 173cm is 5.67", which is actually about 5'8".  It seems a lot of people muck up that conversion, but you definitely don't want a 152.   I'm just a hair shorter and lighter, and I'd probably go 160.  Note that the 160 has a 60cm ref stance (you can get a 4x4 down to 52cm, but you wouldn't have any setback option).  I'm on the 154 FC6000, but bought it for a softer, more playful carver.

James, you did do a couple runs on my Korua Trench Digger, but it really wasn't the day for it.  While it'll slarve ice, it's a lot more fun surf'n softer groomers.  It'll do pow but it's full camber (without the rocker nose like most Korua), so I don't love it.  It's not precise or locked in, but in the right conditions it really is fun.  It has some energy in it, it's easy to tighten up the radius, and while it's fairly forgiving it has some weight and stays on course.  They replaced it with the Bullet Train.  Looks like the same sidecut, but it's wider, full of carbon and has some titanal.  Hopefully they got rid of the chatter.  I suspect it'll ride more like the Shorty, but with a longer (better) sidecut and more energy (probably not as damp without the ash).  I'm keeping an eye out for a used one.

Here are the specs for the Freecarver 9000 160 vs. Korua Bullet Train Plus 16

Someone did here:
https://www.snowboardingforum.com/threads/who-rides-a-korua.259583/page-81#post-3509771

(funny, at the beginning of the season I thought the BT might be too much for me)

Posted by: @board-doctor

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Someone did here:
https://www.snowboardingforum.com/threads/who-rides-a-korua.259583/page-81#post-3509771

(funny, at the beginning of the season I thought the BT might be too much for me)

Interesting. Thank you for doing the legwork on this one. Anyone else have experience with the Bullet Train?

Is the Korua BT titanic construction anywhere close to Collier or JJS?

I feel like the Freecarver (6000) is the top of the line in commercial mass production.  The Stranda Shorty is in another league (and probably somewhat similar to the Bullet Train), but the C4 is in a league above that.   All great boards for their price point.

This is turning into a Bullet Train discussion… but it’s definitely back for 2025:

https://search.rakuten.co.jp/search/mall/Korua+bullet+train/

I don’t know what the shipping would cost, but if you get a Rakuten Global account they'll give you an internal mailing address and then send it on to you without any 3rd party involvement.