Priorities for responsiveness
I gather that most of us prefer responsiveness (ie: stiffness) for carving. If one were to prioritize which piece of equipment is the most important for good carving, which would it be (boot, binding, board)? On the contrary, is there a piece of equipment that you would be willing compromise responsiveness as a trade-off for better fit, more comfort, better design, smaller footprint, less boot-out, etc.?
Craig Kelly is my co-pilot...
A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
Don't compromise. 😉
I use to want all the stiffness that I could get in a board, but now I don't overdo it... I like to carve different shapes without too much effort.
Big White, BC, Canada
Posted by: @kagurasnowsurferwhich piece of equipment is the most important for good carving
What @board-doctor said. If you have loose bindings and old soft boots, you won't be able to control a stiff board properly.
Posted by: @kagurasnowsurferis there a piece of equipment that you would be willing compromise responsiveness as a trade-off for better fit, more comfort, better design, smaller footprint, less boot-out, etc.?
Responsiveness is not necessarily the most important factor. If I had to choose one element to prioritize it would probably be avoiding boot out. I can enjoy carving on many different crappy setups, until I start booting out. I like to push myself on the steeps sure, but I also love just carving green runs all day on wide production boards. Narrow boards are boring, I can't carve deeply at all. And I'm not crazy about the super steep stances as a solution, I feel like I might as well ride hardboots after 39 degrees or so.
And there's always going to be a compromise between comfort and performance, or as The Board Doctor suggests, between the required effort and intensity of the turn. These are very personal choices.
Try asking a more specific question @kagurasnowsurfer if there's something you're wondering about. What's the setup? What's the budget? What are you leaning towards?
I'm just slaying...
It looks like my comment is "awaiting moderation"?
(and I didn't even say anything contentious as I occasionally do?)
Big White, BC, Canada
Posted by: @board-doctorIt looks like my comment is "awaiting moderation"?
I may have clicked that button by accident earlier. I have way too much power over this site... I can delete entire topics at one wrong click with the phone in my pocket.
It's officially approved now. Wanna be a moderator @board-doctor?
I'm just slaying...
Big White, BC, Canada
Posted by: @board-doctorIf I can help out, sure!
Nice! I'll talk to the web dev, I don't know how to do it myself.
I'm just slaying...
I have been shopping for boots as you might have noticed from some of my other threads. The problem is that my mondo 25 EEE foot with a high arch is a tough match for any of the stiffer boots that I have tried. It is hard to describe the degree of discomfort and downright pain that I felt some days last year in my wide Burton Ions. The only boot that I have tried on so far that did not feel like I was a 19th century victim of foot binding is the Lasso Pro Wide and that boot ain't stiff by a long shot. Sure, I can play around with liners but really I need a boot with a wide footbed. My board for carving this winter is a 160 Jones Freecarver 9000. I have the Nidecker Supermatic bindings. (I know that this binding is not your favorite but to be perfectly frank, with my tiny but wide feet...boot-out is not an issue).
Craig Kelly is my co-pilot...
Posted by: @kagurasnowsurferI have been shopping for boots as you might have noticed from some of my other threads. The problem is that my mondo 25 EEE foot with a high arch is a tough match for any of the stiffer boots that I have tried.
I ordered two pairs of strapins to go with my Lasso Pros, free worldwide shipping from strapins.com since they're not in stock here yet, I'll tell you if it improves stiffness significantly. Because I also couldn't lace them up too tight or they'd get too narrow over the actual feet. This is a problem for me since I've got the calves of an african marathon runner...
If that's not enough I'm going to just buy boot stiffeners or figure out how to custom make some myself. Boat and car parts stores sell carbon fiber sheets and epoxy and that way I can tweak the stiffness too and make it conform to my super high arches. I'm interested in playing around with carbon fiber anyway to modify/widen the highbacks since I got the Jones Mercury that lacks highback rotation...
I also have a significant other with access to a 3D printer so I may make her print some prototypes or molds as well...
Most will say that you want to match stiffness/flex of boards/boots/bindings, some will say that it’s nice to have a little give somewhere. Depending on application, I kinda agree. A few years ago I had Ride Insano in Flux TM on my freeride board and I ended up tearing a tendon. Sometimes you do want a little movement.
For carving, there’s certainly different styles as well. Some are more locked in like hardbooters, while others get surfy with more motion below the waist.
My 6000 has some torsional flex through the middle. I think they did this so that people in a duck stance can ankle steer / foot pedal it more easily. I’m running Jones Mercury on it (which don’t really have lateral mobility) mainly because I had them and the 154 is so short that the turns aren’t very dynamic in terms of tip/tail movements. But I vastly preferred the Flux CV which were definitely surfier.
I know the 9000 is beefier, but it’s probably not overbearing. Although it’s a fairly specialized board it’s still for the general market.
With soft boots I’d probably use bindings with good support and a higher ankle strap that’s fat. Like Bataleon Astro Full wrap, with the kinks up. Though some people like more mobility… Jeremy Jones actually wears the top of his boot loose.
Big White, BC, Canada
@kagurasnowsurfer Ya, buy the comfortable boots for sure. On a Freecarver 9000 you won't require a super stiff boot or binding to power it. Riding is not fun when it gets painful.
I agree with @board-doctor that the boot should match the binding and both should match the board. A softish boot in a super stiff binding will cause pressure points for example, and a super stiff interface will be too much for a soft board, unnecessary and overpowering with no advantage gained. And of course, a big stiff board will require a stiff interface to control it and take some of the pressure off the ankles.
Straps and boot stiffeners will be an excellent addition too, @superfelix is right. I have both items shipping to me this month. They are my own design with our house branding and they'll be available in the store soon. Definitely replace the stock liners in those Lassos.
As to the Supermatic, it's not just the length, it's a soft binding with flex in the highback and a loose ankle strap. Not ideal for carving, even if boot out isn't your issue. If you have an opportunity, try out some stiffer bindings at some point this winter, you may love them. (Swap with a friend for a run maybe?)
I'm just slaying...
Posted by: @superfelixPosted by: @kagurasnowsurferI ordered two pairs of strapins to go with my Lasso Pros, free worldwide shipping from strapins.com since they're not in stock here yet, I'll tell you if it improves stiffness significantly. Because I also couldn't lace them up too tight or they'd get too narrow over the actual feet. This is a problem for me since I've got the calves of an african marathon runner...
@superfelix How did those Lasso Pro Wides fit for you? I think that we have similar feet. Have you found any other boots with a similar wide footbed? I have some meaty calves so that is where our feet/legs differ...
Thank you for your replies @wild-cherry and @board-doctor. I will try on a few other boots but will probably end up going with the Lasso Pro Wides. Perhaps, with the StrapsIns, some Intuition liners (no boot fitters in Tokyo so I don't have access to the ski boot liner toss-aways) and those tongue stiffeners from this site (when they come online), I can make some headway with getting the Lasso Pro Wides up to snuff... maybe even shove in a pair of soccer shin guards like Knapton for the heelside. On a different note, one of the main reasons for getting the Nidecker Supermatics are that my knees and sciatic nerve are not enjoying the constant hassle on sitting down to strap in bindings every run. (Twenty years of martial arts and ten years of rugby do take a toll on the body). Nidecker has released a Carbon Supermatic which could get me some better responsiveness.
Craig Kelly is my co-pilot...
@kagurasnowsurfer They fit my feet really well.
I just can’t lace them up very tightly because of the single boa zone, so I hope the straps will help me create a dual zone boa and actually get the all the stiffness out of the tongue that I can. If I need extra stiffness I will just need to use boot stiffeners. Desired leg fit vs comfortable fit over the feet in the pics. The comfortable fit leaves a gap of 2 cm or so between liner and the tongue of the boot.
Edit: Also, note that because of the single-zone boa lacing when you flex and lean forward into the boot the forefoot tightens, this is also what I hope to fix with the straps
Thank you for the detailed feedback. It would be nice is the Lasso Pro Wide had three BOAs like the K2 Traxis (in addition to stiffness). I have had heel lift problems in the past so the ankle zone BOA works for me.Posted by: @superfelix@kagurasnowsurfer They fit my feet really well.
I just can’t lace them up very tightly because of the single boa zone, so I hope the straps will help me create a dual zone boa and actually get the all the stiffness out of the tongue that I can. If I need extra stiffness I will just need to use boot stiffeners. Desired leg fit vs comfortable fit over the feet in the pics. The comfortable fit leaves a gap of 2 cm or so between liner and the tongue of the boot.
Edit: Also, note that because of the single-zone boa lacing when you flex and lean forward into the boot the forefoot tightens, this is also what I hope to fix with the straps
Craig Kelly is my co-pilot...
I have the regular Lasso (not Pro), and I'm always struggling to get the right stiffness with them. I tighten the main boa at the top of the slope, and they feel great, but by the next run the "tightness" travelled down the boa and the tongue is loose again while my foot is crushed. I bought them seeing the 2 boas thinking they were 2-zones (didn't do much research beyond just going into the store and trying whatever was in there), but the second boa is for the ankle specifically and doesn't help get the shin support I'm looking for on toesides. No heel lift, though!
@Felix thanks for the strapins suggestion; I've looked into this type of strap before but the only product I could find was over 100$ for a pair... Which is such blatant price-gouging that I didn't buy it. At 40$ for 2 pairs, and free shipping even to Canada, this is much more reasonable!
"Shut up Tyler"
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